(mid tempo ambient music) (powerful music) - Thanks for joining us on "Capitol View."

I'm Fred Martino.

It is a busy time in Springfield with the Illinois General Assembly meeting to discuss the budget and a variety of important issues in the state.

We have two of the best to help us make sense of it all.

Brenden Moore is State House Reporter for Lee Enterprises and John Jackson from the Paul Simon Public Policy Institute at Southern Illinois University Carbondale.

Gentlemen, thank you both for being with us.

- We're glad to join you today.

- It's always a pleasure, Fred.

- Good to have you both here.

Brenden, I wanna start with you.

A really big story this week.

Election officials must decide if Darren Bailey and GOP operative Dan Proft illegally coordinated during Bailey's Republican campaign for governor.

- Yeah, so this hearing took place earlier this week.

The allegation which was lodged by the Democratic Party of Illinois essentially alleges that there was illegal coordination between Bailey's campaign and Dan Proft, who is a conservative radio host.

He lives in Florida but he's on the air in Chicago.

He's a former gubernatorial candidate.

He had a PAC that was perhaps ironically named to some people, People Who Play By the Rules PAC, which spent millions of dollars in the last governor's race essentially propping up Senator Bailey in his campaign against Governor Pritzker.

The allegation is essentially that Bailey and his campaign manager, Jose Durbin, met with Proft in suburban Chicago the day after, or maybe the week after that he won the primary.

And essentially said that Richard Uihlein, who's a billionaire mega donor conservative, would offer up about $20 million to Bailey's campaign if he made some certain changes such as installing Proft as campaign manager.

And that if he refused, then Proft would get the money and he would basically work from the outside, basically spending money on this PAC.

So obviously, that is not allowed.

If that is what happened, then Bailey and Proft and anyone else involved could find themselves in some trouble with state election officials.

And they have all denied it.

They all say that, you know, a conversation does not necessarily mean coordination.

But this is kind of where things get a little tricky or some gray.

And there's always kind of been between campaigns and political action committees kind of a nod, nod, wink, wink kind of thing.

'Cause they're technically not allowed to coordinate.

But, you know, you can kind of signal kind of what you want as a candidate, what you want your outside help to do and vice versa.

But the allegation here is that it went beyond that, that it is essentially that they were coordinating, which is against the rules.

- Yeah, very interesting.

And interesting as well that in the allegation, we're talking about an awful lot of money, $20 million.

And this is the state of campaigns, not only in Illinois but around the country where it's very big money when you run for office, particularly a statewide office.

So we'll be watching to see where all of this goes for sure.

And it'll be very interesting.

- Yeah.

And again, these were the ads that were tough on crime, that were basically railing Pritzker again for supporting the Safety Act.

The Democrats were supporting the Safety Act.

People, everyone, if you were a voter, you just turned on your television in Illinois in 2022, you saw these ads.

And it was clear what the message was and which campaign they were suborning.

- Yep.

And coming up, we are gonna be talking about an update on the Safety Act and some other things as well that were talked about in the campaign.

John, I wanna move to you now.

We also continue to cover preparations for the Democratic National Convention in Chicago this summer.

And this week, a bombshell, the headline for a "Chicago Tribune" editorial says quote, "For the DNC, Kim Foxx is scrapping "do-not-prosecute rules for peaceful protestors.

"She should do so permanently."

John, of course, Foxx, as you know, is the Cook County State's Attorney.

What do you make of this, her decision to change policy for an event, but not to do so permanently as the "Tribune" suggests she should?

- Well, Fred, this is a good insight into what the city of Chicago, the state of Illinois, and even the federal government are already doing to get ready for the Democratic National Convention the third week in August.

In this case, it's a little convoluted.

She had earlier, since 2020, had this rule that she and her office would not prosecute things like disorderly conduct, unlawful gathering, criminal trespass to state property if they were peaceful demonstrations.

So she's now suspended that.

And this is law enforcement agencies laying the plans and anticipating problems and trouble because of the current atmosphere on university campuses and so forth.

And a number of the protestors have already indicated that they plan to come to Chicago and don't plan to follow the rules.

And so what to do about it?

She's signaling that the Chicago police and other agencies are going to not be bound by her earlier suspension.

In other words, they can round up protestors and give them these charges.

And the FBI was involved, the Homeland Security, as well as the Illinois State Police.

And this all indicates what Chicago desperately wants.

They want a model.

If you go back in our history of the Chicago Democratic National Convention of 1996, you may not remember that quickly, but it was Bill Clinton and Al Gore being renominated in Chicago, the first convention in Chicago since 1968 which was Hubert Humphrey and ultimately Richard Nixon.

And the Democratic National Convention was a fiasco, a terrible blot on the history of Chicago, all kinds of trouble downtown.

All of that hurt Hubert Humphrey's campaign, which he lost by a mere 500,000 votes ultimately.

So the Democrats or anybody else involved with Chicago doesn't want that to happen again.

The "Tribune's" take on it was, it was a fine thing to do but they think it should be suspended permanently.

It really won't matter in terms of Kim Foxx, because she's going to be replaced at the end of the year anyway.

But that was the "Trib's" position on it.

- What do you think of it though from a policy perspective that something like this would only be suspended temporarily?

I mean, the obvious question is: Well, what if it works very well during the convention, but then it is not used in a future situation and it causes great disruption, perhaps even injury to people by not going ahead and having the law enforcement action during protests?

- Well, there's always going to be what's called prosecutorial discretion.

The State's Attorney has to have the right to look at the evidence, look at the police reports, and decide whether or not that office is going to pursue the thing.

So you're always going to have that.

And I think the "Tribune's" probably saying, it needs to go back to the law being followed and just rely on prosecutorial discretion at the end of the day.

- Okay, very interesting.

We will watch.

And it seems like every week, there's a new development in terms of getting ready for the DNC, and certainly a lot of concern.

We do have another story on voting here, Brenden.

This is interesting.

Former President Donald Trump has said that voting should only be in person on election day.

Of course, around the country, people vote early in many states, and they vote by mail.

The "Chicago Sun Times" has an article about Vote By Mail in Illinois.

And they say Trump's actions, in the story, put Republicans here in a bad place.

What did you learn?

- Well, if it were up to Republicans in Illinois, I'm sure they would love it if you could only vote on election day.

But party officials concede that the laws in Illinois make it easy to vote by mail, to vote early, and to vote by other means than just on election day.

And they have been trying for years.

I mean, anytime you go see an event where Party Chairman Don Tracy is speaking, he is always saying, "We have to bank your vote.

"You have to vote early.

"You have to vote absentee.

"We need to get your vote so we can go focus "on getting other voters out."

The "Sun-Times" in their reporting show that they've made a little bit of progress on that at least in some parts of the state.

In Chicago, for instance, in the primary, 23% of Republicans cast their vote early, which was up from the previous election cycle.

However, it's still below Democrats in the city.

And then if you went out to the whole Chicagoland region, 29% of Democrats cast ballots early but only 17% of Republicans did.

So there's still this lag with Republicans in terms of early voting and Vote By Mail.

They don't necessarily trust it.

A lot of these voters have been fed, I guess some would say misinformation about some of these voting processes.

Many believe it's ripe for fraud.

And there are some legitimate concerns with the integrity of... You know, some procedures always need to be looked at.

But it's pretty clear that Republicans in Illinois, again, they've made a little bit of progress.

But when you have the former president and the current presumptive nominee casting doubt on that process, that kind of cuts against, you know, Republicans in Illinois and in other states where they do have robust Vote By Mail and early vote programs.

- Yeah, very important story.

It was glad to see that the "Chicago Tribune" covered this.

And as you know, a lot of voting advocates may argue this is an underreported story.

Because even with the expansion of Vote By Mail and having early voting in person in many states, we still on election day in certain states have long lines where people have to vote and wait a long time to do so on election day.

So the question arises, you know, if you further reduce the chance to vote early either in person or by mail, would that make the situation even worse on election day to the point where some would argue that voter rights are really being impeded?

So very important stuff.

- Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, we've all seen the images of, you know, lines out the door on election day in certain states.

And I mean, it's just a reflection of elections are run by the states.

I mean, it's federal election for federal office in many cases, but they're run by the states.

And every state is different.

- Yep, do not underestimate it.

I'm old enough to remember voting in the election between John Kerry and George W. Bush in which George W. Bush prevailed.

And there were extremely long lines in Ohio where George W. Bush won Ohio and it was decisive in that election.

So really important that this not only can impact voter rights but can potentially affect an entire election because of our Electoral College where there is a great impact based on individual states and how they run their elections.

John, we're going to move now to a criminal justice story, the "Chicago Tribune" reporting that six months after Illinois ended cash bail, jail populations are down as courts settle into new patterns.

Tell us more about this.

- Fred, I think this is an important and interesting story out of the "Tribune."

Madeline Buckley did this investigative reporting at the six-month mark.

As you know, we ended cash bail six months ago.

It's under what's called the Safety Act.

And it's really a finding that so far, the act is working pretty much as intended.

That is, it's clearly reduced the number of people that are in prison waiting trial.

And, of course, there were all those stories about people from anywhere from two weeks to two years having been in jail if they couldn't make bail.

And that was one of the impetus behind the Safety Act.

And it has reduced the number of people in prison.

And the number of people waiting to get to their judicial process has been impacted by this.

And it's impacted now because the judges, the district or state's attorneys and the defense attorneys, public defenders included, have been learning to adjust.

And it has been a learning curve.

But they're doing now what the act intended.

That is, they're looking at: What was the nature of the crime?

What is the defendant's past record?

And importantly, what are the likelihoods that they're going to skip out and not show up when they have a court date?

And so far, I think you'd have to say that the state should probably take some satisfaction in number one, that they're going to save money at the state and at the county and local level if they've got fewer people in that prison waiting for their trial to be found guilty or innocent.

And number two, that while it's been a real demand on the judges, the prosecutors, and the defense attorneys, they're learning to cope with it except for some problems of staffing in the rural areas.

So all in all, it's an important story although it's tentative at the six-months marker.

- Okay, we'll be watching.

Another important story and something that we'll continue to have to follow up on to see how it all unfolds.

Speaking of developing stories, Brenden, I would like you to bring us up to date on a story you talked about on this program some time ago.

As a result of your investigation, we learned that an arson registry in Illinois had never been posted online.

But I understand there are efforts in the General Assembly now to take action.

- Right.

So back in January, we reported that there had been this registry on the books, passed 20 years ago, but had never been implemented.

Basically a sex-offender-like registry where you include information about arsonists.

Sounds like a great idea.

But the state police were never given the appropriation to implement this registry because the act required that they put the information in through a system that is called I-CLEAR, which is present in Chicago and was supposed to be implemented statewide.

It's basically a data collecting system for law enforcement, but it was never implemented.

So basically, after our reporting and after repeated findings from the Auditor General's office, the state police and state legislators have worked together on a fix that will allow for the registry to finally be implemented.

Basically, it would allow for the state police to use their existing system instead of having to create a whole new system.

That would cost a lot of money and, you know, would've been kind of a tedious task.

So it passed with no opposition in the House.

It's in the Senate now.

It's included in what's called an omnibus bill, which includes several changes and fixes to the statute that involves the state police.

But the arson registry is probably the top line on that.

So we may finally start to see...

I mean, there is a database.

It just has no names on it right now.

But we might start to see some names probably within the next year.

The state police have until, I believe it was July 1st, 2025 to get this off the ground.

So in about a year, we may finally start to see that arson registry that was promised to us more than 20 years ago.

- Great reporting, Brenden.

Thank you for that update.

I'm sure when it's up and online, we'll have a photo of it and be able to show it on this show as, again, an example of the importance of the watchdog role of journalism.

John, a final criminal justice story now.

A Chicago lawyers group says that solitary confinement in Illinois prisons violates human rights.

Tell us about that.

- This is the Chicago Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights.

And they have not only this report, but a bill that's been introduced in which they're saying it violates human rights by international standards.

And by our Constitution, it would violate the 8th Amendment, which is cruel and unusual punishment prohibited.

There's all kinds of data and all kinds of anecdotal stories about what solitary confinement does to the prisoner, taking a very fierce toll both psychologically and in physical health kind of conditions.

And the lawyers, commissions, committee said, that's just too much of a toll, that it ought to be used much more sparingly than it is used, and that the toll does violate both the human rights and the cruel and unusual punishment prohibition.

The Department of Corrections says they follow all the rules and all the regulations and meet all the standards, and that they need that particular punishment for those who violate and have infractions in the prison itself.

So we'll see.

There's a bill at the state legislature.

And Senator Durbin has a federal bill that is comparable to it.

- Very interesting.

Yeah, we'll definitely wanna update folks on where those state and federal laws go if they are approved, and something to watch.

We have reported on stalled and canceled projects to build carbon dioxide pipelines.

The director of the Sierra Club Illinois wrote in the "Chicago Sun-Times" about CO2 pipelines.

It's very interesting.

He has said in this editorial, it is an editorial from the Sierra Club, that CO2 pipelines, the oversight issues are of great concern.

And we need to take a step back on that.

So it's something that we're certainly gonna continue to watch.

About two minutes, John, left in the show to talk about something we've talked about on this show before.

Chicago voter turnout in March, the lowest in 80 years for a presidential primary.

And that is despite some big issues on the ballot other than the race for president: a citywide referendum question regarding funding to help the homeless; several local congressional contests; and a tight Democratic race for Cook County State's Attorney.

As you know, John, nationally, Democrats very worried that the war in Gaza will depress turnout for President Biden with only about one in four Chicago voters turning out in the primary.

What will Democrats, in your view, have to do in Illinois and elsewhere?

- Well, it will be very different in the fall.

But still there's concern, particularly among Democrats, about turnout in their traditional constituencies.

Those statistics, whether you look at Chicago, Cook County, downstate, wherever you look, in whatever demographic you look, were terrible.

But it's because the presidential election and, in this case, nomination had been decided already.

And that's the one that makes people really want to go to the polls.

And that will be, of course, present in the fall.

But that being said, it is a concern both in Illinois and nationally, and particularly among Democrats who've got to get young people out.

And currently, young people are projected to vote at the lowest level.

African Americans are projected to vote at lower levels, and Hispanics projected to vote at lower levels.

So you can be sure that the Democrats will be working to try to get their base out.

The Republicans will do likewise.

And it'll come down to turnout, turnout and turnout as political scientists and media people often observe.

- Absolutely, especially with the Electoral College still in place.

We cannot forget, you know, Hillary Clinton actually had almost 3 million more votes than former president Donald Trump.

- George Bush in 2000, another turnout story right there.

- Yes, yes, Al Gore winning the popular vote but losing in the sense of the Electoral College.

So not taking office.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

- Glad to join you.

- It was a pleasure.

- Thank you for being with us at home as well.

For everyone at WSIU, I'm Fred Martino.

Have a great week.

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