(bright music) (dramatic music) - Thanks for joining us on "Capitol View".

I'm Fred Martino.

This week after the conviction of former Illinois House leader Michael Madigan, will ethics reforms be approved?

There's reaction to Governor JB Pritzker's call to restrict cell phones in classrooms, and an update on a plan to replace gas pipelines in the state.

Those stories and more with Jeremy Gorner of The Chicago Tribune and Charlie Wheeler, he is emeritus director of the Public Affairs Reporting Program at the University of Illinois, Springfield.

Before we begin the program this week, former Governor Jim Edgar revealed that he is fighting pancreatic cancer.

We wish the Governor and his family all the best from "Capitol View".

Jeremy, last week you covered the big story, Governor JB Pritzker proposed a budget calling for restraint in spending.

In fact, he proposed canceling a very expensive healthcare program for some immigrants.

The budget assumes a better financial picture than what was previously expected.

What is your take on where all of this will end up?

- Well, it's interesting, Fred, because in the last couple of years, you know, especially as we saw last year where it took the Democrats three tries at the end of May to pass a budget.

You know, that was because of, you know, moderate Democrats who, you know, were in the midst of an election year, were not comfortable passing a budget that they felt was, you know, bloated and kind of controversial, you know, some overspending there with, there was a reason, you know, that, that many people thought.

And there was, you know, taxes were raised by, you know, more than $750 million, you know, many of them on like, you know, on legalized gambling issues.

But, you know, that didn't sit too well with moderate Democrats in the legislature.

Now, the moderate Democrats seem to be okay with the Governor's proposal.

There is a little bit of belt tightening despite a little bit more spending, but it's progressive Democrats who are a little uneasy, because of cuts that the Governor is proposing in the upcoming budget, including this immigrant healthcare program, which I'm sure that we've talked about on this show before.

Has had issues, you know, since it's been in place in the last five years with the state overestimating enrollment and overestimating the costs.

Leaving Democrats wide open to criticism by Republicans who, of course, have always called for fiscal restraint in these budgets no matter what the budget year.

So, I think it'll be interesting to see, you know, where it was moderate Democrats who were kind of endangering the budget process for Democrats last year.

It, you know, it'll be interesting to see how Progressives react to this budget.

I mean, primarily the immigrant healthcare was the big one that was cut.

There's also been cuts to welcoming centers for asylum seekers that have come to Chicago area, and the rest of Illinois.

Of course, the number of asylum seekers has dwindled, you know, I believe in the last year or so.

But another point I wanted to make about immigrant healthcare.

You know, when we were asking Governor Pritzker about why he's cutting one of the programs, which by the way, there's two programs.

There's one that affects folks who are under the age of 65.

So primarily, that age 42 through 64 range.

And then anyone who is over 65 is a separate program.

The 42 to 64-year-olds, for them, that program is what the Governor's proposing to cut.

And his justification for it is, you know, this is a, you know, when you are of that age range, you are part of the workforce.

And he says that he's heard of cases where you have people in that age group who are enrolled in the program, and then they get good enough paying jobs where they get healthcare benefits through work.

So, why do they need to be on the state-run healthcare program?

So, that was one justification that Pritzker threw out there for why he wanted to cut the program.

But, you know, he also had to make cuts, you know, proposing cuts to his early childcare initiative, which is something that he is really near and dear to his heart.

That was like a cornerstone of one of his budget proposals in the last couple of years.

And he has stressed to Democrats.

He has stressed to lawmakers, including Democrats, his own allies, basically saying, "Look, you know, basically like any budget people are gonna get left out, but if you really want something in this upcoming budget, you're, you know, then you or we're gonna have to come up with ideas together on what to cut.

So, this year, I think, you know, before we see any kind of final proposal that's presented to the General Assembly in May, I mean, it's pretty clear that Pritzker has drawn a line in the sand here.

- Yeah, it's gonna be fascinating to see where it all ends up beyond the immediate concerns.

Of course, the Governor has been communicating according to reports with the federal government about difficulty accessing federal funds that have already been allocated.

And then you have the concern about the future, because Republicans this week passed a framework for a federal budget that includes a lot more cuts that would be devastating for many states.

One of the biggest concerns is, of course, Medicaid, which is the healthcare program for about one in four Americans.

We often forget that when we talk about that program, it is enormous and different, of course, state to state.

But this is another unknown and something that we'll be watching in addition to the immediate negotiations in Springfield.

And, of course, we should say, Jeremy, you are in Springfield.

So, you'll be at the pulse of this for some time.

Before we move on, just really quickly, I wanted to ask you, are you hearing in Springfield any concern about the fact that the Governor has been one of the most outspoken critics of President Trump?

- I don't wanna say concern.

I mean, don't forget there's democratic super majorities in both chambers.

I would assume that a lot of these lawmakers probably tend to agree with the Governor and the anti-Trump stance he's taken.

I know that the Governor upset several Republicans, many Republicans last week during his speech at the Capitol, you know, when he invoked Nazi, you know, when he talked about Nazism and, you know, the rise of Nazism in Germany in the 1930s and compared that to the modern day Republican Party.

You had some Republicans who headed towards the exits in the House chamber for that, which, you know, that kind of talking point from Democrats really isn't anything new.

But I mean, he really is like, you know, the formidable Democratic leader in this country who's taken an aggressive stance against Donald Trump.

You're not really seeing that from a lot of other Democrats, and that could be for many reasons.

I mean, you know, it could be that some other Democrats, you know, in this country are thinking maybe we need to be more moderate, if we're gonna win elections again on the national level.

But Pritzker's been kind of sticking to his guns there.

He is been pretty consistent in his rhetoric against Trump.

And, you know, to your point about the budget, yeah, I mean, I believe that the Governor said yesterday, around $1.8 billion is being withheld or could be withheld from the state, because of this.

And that's not even factored into the budget proposal from last week.

So, that's to your point, that is gonna be another added layer between now and May.

So, we'll see what happens.

- We'll see.

Oh my goodness, lots of concern there.

Charlie, with the recent conviction of former Illinois House speaker Michael Madigan, you might think in addition to the budget, legislators would be anxious to tackle ethics reform, but recently, columnist Rich Miller says, we might not want to expect reform anytime soon.

Tell us more and your thoughts on this.

- Well, I will cut to the chase and I will say that, you know, make a prediction.

It's more likely that the White Sox will win the World Series this year than that the legislature will pass any meaningful ethics reform.

Well, Rich talked to House Speaker Emanuel Chris Welch, and he said that Welch told him he was, and this was Rich's quote, he was proud that nobody in his caucus had been accused of corruption since he took over.

And here's a quote, I'll read it from Welch.

"We addressed ethics in my first year as Speaker.

There's a number of things that we have done that I think really changed the environment and have helped us to get to the point that we're at today."

So, he doesn't sound like he's really gung-ho to do anything.

And as a matter of fact, in the story, Jeremy and his colleagues did after Madigan's conviction, they interviewed the Senate president Don Harmon.

And his quote was, "The jury's verdict closes a long, disturbing chapter in Illinois history.

It's a stark reminder that corruption, abuse of power, manipulation of public policy for personal gain can never be tolerated.

We cannot be effective, if people don't trust us.

Yet, every failure is an opportunity.

In recent years, we have worked to restore that trust through balanced budgets, credit rating upgrades, community investment, sweeping bipartisan ethics reform."

Well, non-partisan observers, obviously, Republic is non-partisan observers, good government groups thinks the notion of sweeping ethics reform is really a joke.

- Okay.

Well, it lays it out there then, Charlie, you seem to agree with the columnist Rich Miller.

We should not expect it, at least right now.

Real quickly before we move on, what would in your view drive interest in doing more in terms of ethics reform?

- I really don't know, to be perfectly honest.

- I'm sure.

Yeah.

- If the conviction of Michael Madigan, longest-serving Speaker in US history, and for many years, basically, the guy behind the General Assembly, if his conviction couldn't impel people to move, I don't know what will.

- Yeah.

That's what I thought you might say.

- Building proofs were recommending.

And they came out after the Conviction Coalition of them, and they said, "Here are some of the things we need to do."

And I went back and looked five years ago.

They were arguing for the same changes of the law, and nothing has happened since then.

And as I said, nothing's gonna happen this spring.

- Okay.

Well, we'll move on now, Jeremy.

Governor Pritzker has proposed a restriction on classroom use of cell phones.

As you know, this is a popular idea that's sweeping the country.

The Chicago Sun Times recently talked about this with students.

What did they find?

- Well, it's a complicated issue, Fred.

It's controversial.

It's been around for a long time in the schools.

You know, generally, you got a couple schools of thought here, no pun intended.

You have, you know, the fact that, you know, cell phones have really become a part of the culture, you know, for young people, especially.

With social media, with group texting, with the various apps that are out there.

But, you know, I mean, because of that age, there's been a lot of concern, oh, you know, about cyber bullying being an issue in schools and, you know, phones being kind of the conduit towards that.

That's one issue.

Another issue is that, you know, another issue basically is that, you know, where proponents of this law, including Governor Pritzker, you know, are saying basically that, you know, if you take a kid's phone away during school, during classroom instruction, they can focus a lot better.

I mean, keep in mind this law looks like, or this proposal looks like it would have, you know, limitations.

It doesn't mean you can't take the phone in the school.

It doesn't mean you're barred from taking a phone in the school outright, just not during classroom instruction.

I mean, there's gonna be, so basically, what this proposal is calling for is for schools to come up with their own policies against the use of cell phones in the classroom.

But then you have people who are against the proposal and, you know, for security reasons.

You know, for instance, we've seen gun violence happen inside schools and outside schools, you know, at various points history in this country.

And, you know, there's some concerns about that.

I know, and Charlie probably, you know, has the institutional knowledge for this, but when former state rep Mary Flowers was in the legislature, she was against any kind of effort to keep cell phones outta the hands of kids in school, because of what happened during the mass shooting in a Columbine high school in Colorado in the late nineties.

So, you know, there's all sorts of varying opinions to this, but yeah, I mean, a lot of these kids, you know, who, you know, have cell phones.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously, it's just become a fabric of who they are.

I mean, it's really become a cultural phenomenon.

But again, for all those reasons that I kinda laid out, you know, that's where you have, you know, both sides.

This has been an issue that has never gone, that has been talked about for years, and isn't going away.

But now, it looks like Pritzker is really kind of wrapping his head around this.

- Yeah.

Okay.

Well, we will watch, again, a lot of sides there, but certainly, a big distraction in the classroom and a lot of teachers probably pleased with this call to have a strong state policy on asking schools to do something.

Hopefully, we have time for two more stories.

Charlie, a new report says that state regulators are clamping down on a Peoples Gas pipeline replacement program.

The Sun Times reported on this.

Tell us more.

- Yeah.

What it is, is that Peoples Gas for some time has been embarking on a program to basically, replace all their infrastructure.

All the pipes that carry natural gas to businesses and homes throughout Chicago.

And the Illinois Commerce Commission, which paused the program a couple years ago, because of concerns about cost overruns has said, "Okay, you can start, but you have to concentrate on the oldest pipelines."

There's roughly 1,000 miles of pipeline, some of which go back to the 1800s.

And they're worried, because these cast iron pipes are very prone to leak.

And if the gas leak comes out, it'd be a horrible explosion.

So, the order says that the Peoples Gas has to focus on these older pipelines, and it has to have a, what would you call it?

Has to have yearly reviews by outside authorities to see how these things are going.

And the program which began years ago was over, oh, it's like $3.3 billion already, and less than half of the work has been done.

- Wow.

- And the ruling will say the company has to restart work, has to focus on the highest risk pipes and complete the work in 10 years.

So, we'll see what happens there.

And they have 4,600 miles of gas pipes under the city.

And as I say, some of it goes back to the 1800s, and the focus is gonna be on the older pipes and get those replaced.

Now, some of the consumer groups say, "Well, it's good to make 'em focus on these, but we also think that this whole notion of replacing all the infrastructure, all 4,000 miles, is really not looking to the future, because we expect that within the next 10 years, there will be a lot of replacement by renewable resources, electricity, for example, for stuff that gas is now used for.

And Peoples, obviously, doesn't agree with that, but we'll see where it goes from here.

- Yeah, and, of course, the problem is we're not there yet, but yeah, that's a debate happening, of course, Charlie, all over the country.

Jeremy, at your newspaper, The Chicago Tribune, there has been continuing coverage of the Trump administration crack down on immigration, including a recent report in The Tribune about arrests.

Tell us more.

- Yeah, so in late January, you know, immigration agents swept the Chicago area and you know, basically this lit up phone screens, there were all these frenzied reports of sighting of immigration and customs enforcement agents around Chicago.

You know, the report talked about some of the experiences of these people who've been arrested, you know, while, you know, basically, you know, knowing that ICE could be looking for them.

And you know, it, you know, obviously, we saw TV's Dr. Phil even join in, in the effort by ICE to, you know, to look for undocumented people.

And basically, as these scenes played out, you know, ICE had disclosed that they made more than 950 arrests nationwide that day as part of President Trump's mass deportation proposal or plan, rather.

And Chicago Police Superintendent Snelling, he said at least 100 people were arrested in Chicago and the surrounding area that day.

This is January 26th.

But basically, what this story shows that you're talking about, Fred, is that, you know, a month later, you know, we were a month after all this, you know, precise information about who was arrested and why, remains elusive.

Federal officials have really have declined to release detailed information about these arrests.

And, you know, even though there's national data for the first few weeks of the Trump administration beginning to trickle in, there was one independent group that compiles these figures that says there's inconsistencies in a lot of what they're saying.

You know, there's, you know, in terms of like who's arrested and why apparently.

And part of this is just that on the federal level, it's not like the county system where in Illinois arrestees must go before a judge within 48 hours.

And police must make arrest reports with identifying information available within 72 hours.

in the, you know, in the immigration system, it's very byzantine, very opaque, you know?

Where people can be detained and not go to a judge for weeks.

And that's what these reporters were really documenting in some of these cases.

And obviously, the big thing we heard from the Trump administration is they're going after people with criminal records.

Well, you know, what does that mean?

I mean, are we looking for people who were mass murderers, you know, or are we looking for people who've gotten DUIs not to, you know, or, you know, less serious crimes, and we don't know.

And so, The Tribune actually looking through, because some of these individuals were being detained in county jails, you know, in Indiana, and in Illinois, and elsewhere.

And there were nearly 200 detainee names that The Tribune got ahold of.

And about half of these people could not be located with confidence in national databases or public record searches to figure out, you know, basically, to figure out who these people were and what their backgrounds were.

So basically, what this story really is, it illustrates, like I said, is the byzantine and opaque world of, you know, immigration enforcement.

Where the public is really largely kept in the dark about what federal law enforcement is doing in these situations.

- Yeah, and of course, one among many.

- These efforts or these efforts rather.

- Yeah.

And, of course, one among many issues where transparency is a major concern.

Jeremy, I only have two minutes left, but I wanted to touch on one final human rights story that you'll be hearing about in Springfield.

State lawmakers are weighing, whether to legalize medical aid in dying.

What did you find out about that?

- Yeah, so this issue actually was floated around during the previous legislative session last year.

And it couldn't make it outta the General Assembly.

So, the lawmakers have ignited a renewed effort for this.

So yeah, lawmakers are considering legalizing, you know, what's called medical aid in dying.

You know, that some people refer to colloquially as assisted suicide.

And you know, there's a couple schools of thought here.

I mean, supporters have pointed to a majority of Illinois voters supporting legalized medical aid and dying in a 2023 poll, but there's other critics who call the process barbaric.

State Senator Linda Holmes is the, you know, the main sponsor in the Senate for this measure.

And during a hearing last week in Chicago, she told her Senate colleagues that she supports the proposal, because of her parents' deaths.

Both her mother and father died after extended battles with cancer.

So, you know, basically, what this, you know, basically this proposal would be geared towards patients whose doctors determined have less than six months to live due to a terminal illness.

And in this case, a patient could administer the drugs on their life-ending drugs on their own at the time of their choosing.

And there's several safeguards to prevent abuse.

According to proponents, this includes a waiting period to receive a prescription, a requirement that the patient receive a terminal diagnosis from two doctors, and a requirement that patients prescribed lethal medication have sufficient mental capacity.

- Okay.

- But, yeah.

- So, there are safeguards in the bill.

Very interesting.

We'll continue to watch that.

And, of course, something that other states have passed and something that we're probably gonna see as a continuing issue with the aging population.

We are out of time.

Jeremy and Charlie, thank you so much for joining us this week.

- Thanks.

- Thanks, Fred.

- That is "Capitol View" for everyone at WSIU.

I'm Fred Martino.

Have a good week.

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